Curse

Guardian of the Light · Oct 21, 2005, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Ya Rebirth is good in gvg when u and the ememy are in stand-off(your close but no oen is attacking) and u have some allys dead near your enemy.

stumpy · Oct 21, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Ya Rebirth is good in gvg when u and the ememy are in stand-off(your close but no oen is attacking) and u have some allys dead near your enemy.

I am sorry but can you clarify this for me ??? Please tell me which backrow character your guild has chosen to bring rebirth? This could be debateable but I am curious who you knock out?

Sereng Amaranth · Oct 22, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

glyph of sacrifice and a hard rez

what would glyph of renewal + glyph of sacrifice + hard rez do? wouldn't that mean an insta-rez plus recharge in 45 secs?

damocles · Oct 22, 2005, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

what would glyph of renewal + glyph of sacrifice + hard rez do? wouldn't that mean an insta-rez plus recharge in 45 secs?

No glyphs work like stances u can only use one at the time.

Phades · Oct 22, 2005, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by damocles

No glyphs work like stances u can only use one at the time.

That causes most of them to become useless considering many different elemental spell options. If they actually modified the spell for a period of time in a fashion similar to echo, then they would be alot more useful than they are now and would compare more closely to the mesmer stances, necro enchantment, or ranger augmentations. If they were also that way, it would give them a reason to have a attribute linked to them such as energy storage, instead of being a free efficiency booster for any non-elementalist unlike all other methods. Glyph of renewal cant work that way anymore, but i dont feel that was a very good change to begin with.

Schorny · Oct 23, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

That causes most of them to become useless

Why?
You can only apply one glyph to a spell. That is logical -> Glyph of Renewal + Glyph of Sacrifice on Meteor Shower anyone?

Quote:

If they actually modified the spell for a period of time in a fashion similar to echo, then they would be alot more useful than they are now and would compare more closely to the mesmer stances, necro enchantment, or ranger augmentations.

But they are not supposed to do that. The glyphs are so powerful (much more powerful than all you named, besides echo):

Instant rechage,
-15 energy
-20 energy and no exhaustion
instant cast
can't be interrupted with no negative side effects

There is nothing that comes close to this. Of course they have a drawback: they only work on one spell and then need to recharge.

Phades · Oct 23, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Why?
You can only apply one glyph to a spell. That is logical -> Glyph of Renewal + Glyph of Sacrifice on Meteor Shower anyone?

Renewal wasnt always that way. It used to be a mimic of quickening zephyr. That is why i stated that it wouldnt work in its current form. Even so, the energy and exhaustion from doing that would cripple the user with no guarenteed damage due to the nature of AOE spells in pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

But they are not supposed to do that. The glyphs are so powerful (much more powerful than all you named, besides echo):

Instant rechage,
-15 energy
-20 energy and no exhaustion
instant cast
can't be interrupted with no negative side effects

There is nothing that comes close to this. Of course they have a drawback: they only work on one spell and then need to recharge.

Lesser energy is bad due to the recharge time and no exhaustion reduction. A better use end up being energising wind, if referencing elementalist skills that would require the large front end reduction.

Instant cast doesnt have a direct comparison, but it has its own drawback built in. If it followed the echo pattern, it would end up being identical to its current form without further modifications.

Can't be interupted is a waste of time with any spell of less than 3s and it costs more than mantra of resolve and requires more downtime. Not that either seem to stop power block. They really need to change the english on that spell, due to the inherent blackout effect.

Then there is one that is so bad, that even you left out, which is glyph of power and awakening the blood ends up being better in most situations.

The direct comparisons exist and outperform in most situations in virtually every aspect. I mean hell, its not like there is a glyph that imitates aura of faith, so making them that way and adjusting renewal wouldnt be a bad move. Even if someone did load out their skill bar to change spell properties alot, they would still only be working with 1-3 spells with only one of them being augmented, more if copied.

Stayfrosty · Oct 23, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Uhhh why has no one mentioned restore life yet? Mesmer 12 fast cast + restore life = as close to res sig as it gets

CKaz · Oct 23, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

You can do a lot with glyphs if you think out of the box.
You can also echo/arcane echo a glyph getting past some of the recharge.

glyphs also can't be stripped like an enchantment nor count as a spell and doesn't take up your stance so you can mix it up.

certainly some applications wont make sense, and there are other, possibly better options as you mix the other class into the mix

but the majority useless? hardly IMO, particularly when mixed with other classes. and the elites there, energy and renewal (the latter with the change) are particularly useful.

even glyph of power - yes I hardly use it, thats one of the weaker ones true, but there are some uses
with that boost certain enchantments which don't quite make the recast time without help will do so with a little jump, also with coordinated ele spike that can be worked in with sometimes interesting effect

Phades · Oct 23, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

You can do a lot with glyphs if you think out of the box.
You can also echo/arcane echo a glyph getting past some of the recharge.

glyphs also can't be stripped like an enchantment nor count as a spell and doesn't take up your stance so you can mix it up.

certainly some applications wont make sense, and there are other, possibly better options as you mix the other class into the mix

I completely agree that the majority of the useful ones are better when not using elementalist skills. I would also state that 2 of the 6 do not make up the majority. (duh)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

even glyph of power - yes I hardly use it, thats one of the weaker ones true, but there are some uses
with that boost certain enchantments which don't quite make the recast time without help will do so with a little jump, also with coordinated ele spike that can be worked in with sometimes interesting effect

Have you really looked at what it does to the spells?
The ice line you are looking at +1s for the modified spells like mindfreeze, frozen burst, ice spikes, blurred vision ect. Also, you are looking at +8 damage for things like ice spear and spikes, 12 for frozen burst, and 20 for malestorm before armor and other defenses after you sacrifice an additional 5e and 2s of time. For air you are looking at +6 for the directed stuff like strike and envenerating, +12 with orb, +1s for flash and others, +2s weakness on envenerating, and -1e on thunderclap. For earth its 10 damage on things like obsidian flame and earthquake, 10/8 for afttershock, +1s on most modifiable durations, +5AL for earth, and +8 for kinetic. The conjures are +2 damage. Essentailly, it just wastes time and space on the skill bar if it didnt guarentee a kill in the first volley. With how slow the stronger hitting ele spells are, it is rather unlikely that the kill will be guarenteed against compotent opposition.

Elementalists are also not rangers, so they cant reduce the cost of the glyphs, in addition to them costing time limiting their actions during a fight. Beyond energy and exhaustion management for general purpose use, they really dont have a place on the skill bar for elementalist skills. Currently the glyphs are rather short term use, like other quick things like reversal of fortune, orders, and diversion very unlikely to be removed even if they could be, but at the same time have low reusability due to the time required to use opposed to more passive means. However, they arent snap use skills, which allow for interuption complicating the situation more than it is required to be. Assuming that ele skills are properly priced, some things like the idea of exhaustion and the abundance of high priced skills lead to wonder if some of the glyphs could have been left out entirely and just tune up the already high cost skills another 5e and another +1s cast time. But other things like glyph of concentration are a waste of time and energy when compared to others like mantra of resolve.

Patrograd · Oct 23, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

There is very definately a place for hard rez in GvG, you just need to be careful with it, like so many things.

You control DP not through lack of rez, but through control of the flag. I was involved in a very long GvG battle last night (50 mins or so) and I am not exagerating when I say I must have died 8-10 times and yet finished the battle on the winning side with a DP of around 12% because of the morale boosts from controlling the flagstand.

I cant really see a use for it in tombs though, battles are generally too fast and furious and you dont have the time to recover from the hard rez before you're down again. Even so, I imagine there are certain specific builds that could make use of it